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Tuesday, March 22, 2005

You decide on the CR "Vets" from their own words

--posted by Tony Garcia on 3/22/2005

I just had a chat conversation with "CRVetsForTruth" which I found enlightening. My tone of some of my criticisms may have been a tad harsher than deserved (they do seem like decent people, unlike those they are loyal too). However, all of my criticisms still stand.

The full text will be in the comments section.

Highlights will be drawn out here.

Relating to their name of "Vets"
tonygarcialive: CR Vets...what branch were you in
CRVetsForTruth: Veterans has multiple definitions, I suggest you pick up a dictionary. Not only is it a person who has served in the Armed Forces but also the following: "an experienced person who has been through many battles; someone who has given long service" and "seasoned: rendered competent through trial and experience"
tonygarcialive: th implication is otherwise, regardless of the literal meaning.
CRVetsForTruth: We are CR Veterans with a great deal of experience in the youth movement and a dedication to see it continue
As a vet I am deeply troubled by their bastardization of thne reverance held in the word "Vet". The way I see it they are playing semantics to fool people into thinking they are real Vets.

Remember that in order to participate in a discussion most sites have a comments section. The owner can remove onerous remarks. For the CR "Vets" they require an e-mail to be sent to them. If they deem it to be fair (which to this point anything against their candidates is considered dirty) they will post the e-mail. Hmm, sounds to me like they are the gatekeepers of truth, fairness and decency.
CRVetsForTruth: there is no gatekeeper
CRVetsForTruth: just rules of transparency
Their definition of "transparency? I could not really get that. It seems that they forget that those who need to stay anonymous can have the most credible information. Linda Tripp should have remained anonymous. "Deep Throat" is still anonymous. Anonymity does not mean that the information is bad.

So, if you can prove that Hoplin and Gourley were clean in the scandalous fundraising that existed in 2004 then prove it. Stop attacking the meesenger and prove their innocence frome the RDI connection.

So far it seems that Hoplin & Gourley claiming they cleaned up the mess is the same as if Nixon passed Campaign Finance Reform and then claimed he cleaned up the problems he inherited. Hoplin & Gourley were knowingly knee deep in shady fundraising (and should be prosecuted imho). They "cleaned up" only when they were caught. For that alone the Republicans should run them out of all positions. Make them start over and prove they have reformed themselves.

Circling your wagons around these Kenneth-Lay-apprentices is worse than what the Democrats in the Senate did for Clinton.

1 Comments:

Blogger Tony said...

tonygarcialive: where is your comments section
CRVetsForTruth: hey
tonygarcialive: what branch of service were you in?
CRVetsForTruth: excuse me?
CRVetsForTruth: ?
tonygarcialive: CR Vets...what branch were you in
CRVetsForTruth: Veterans has multiple definitions, I suggest you pick up a dictionary. Not only is it a person who has served in the Armed Forces but also the following: "an experienced person who has been through many battles; someone who has given long service" and "seasoned: rendered competent through trial and experience"

tonygarcialive: th implication is otherwise, regardless of the literal meaning.
tonygarcialive: *the...
CRVetsForTruth: I am sorry you don't understand
CRVetsForTruth: We are CR Veterans with a great deal of experience in the youth movement and a dedication to see it continue
tonygarcialive: i understand...i'm just commenting on the perception...esp when using a naming format similar to the Swiftboat Vets for truth. ;) but, feel free to talk down to me a little more.
CRVetsForTruth: I apologize if I came across as talking down
CRVetsForTruth: We have just been forced to be rather defensive with many people upset at what we are trying to bring to the table
CRVetsForTruth: the sad state of CR affairs
tonygarcialive: so, i have been trying to find the whole fundraising details but have found little on your site
CRVetsForTruth: We haven't generated our own commentary on that yet... however we have posted every major statement on it since we began
CRVetsForTruth: that being said- if you think there is a point that isnt being made, feel free to submit something to our Open Forum
CRVetsForTruth: as long as it is attributed and clean we'll post it
*** "CRVetsForTruth" signed on at Tue Mar 22 12:06:24 2005.
CRVetsForTruth: we want to provide another avenue for healthy discussion
tonygarcialive: where are the comments section?
CRVetsForTruth: you email your submission- we refuse to allow our blog to be a unaccountable platform for spewing hate- something others have failed to do
CRVetsForTruth: so we ensure it meets honest and open criteria and then post if for you
tonygarcialive: censoring?
CRVetsForTruth: also ensuring that it is live on our front page, not relegated to some back page
CRVetsForTruth: no of course not
CRVetsForTruth: the only decision we make is if it fits the three simple criteria
tonygarcialive: why the anonimty from you 3?
CRVetsForTruth: have you seen the comment pages on some blogs?
tonygarcialive: yes
CRVetsForTruth: have you seen the negative horrible attacks?
tonygarcialive: i ignore the hateful stuff on mine
tonygarcialive: smart people ignore that, dumb people are beyond help
CRVetsForTruth: but you provide a platform for it, and thus are complicit in it, if you don't stop it
CRVetsForTruth: we will not be complicit in hateful attacks
tonygarcialive: only in a fully open marketplace can the poor ideas be seen for what they are, can the idiots be exposed.
CRVetsForTruth: it's an open marketplace- blogs are free
CRVetsForTruth: but our blog won't help others do that crap
tonygarcialive: you attack anonimity, right
CRVetsForTruth: are you interested in our Open Forum?
CRVetsForTruth: of course
CRVetsForTruth: my name is Brian Mazanec
tonygarcialive: i participate in no forum with a gatekeeper
tonygarcialive: no offense
CRVetsForTruth: that is your choice
tonygarcialive: yes
CRVetsForTruth: we choose decency and fairness and will do what we can to promote it
CRVetsForTruth: and this is one way we feel we can
tonygarcialive: so say the editors of liberal newspapers
CRVetsForTruth: i understand some will disagree- that's life
tonygarcialive: it exacerbates the perception of their biased, whether real or imagined
CRVetsForTruth: we just want a healthy debate that is clean
CRVetsForTruth: just like anonimity does?
tonygarcialive: not as much as a gatekeeper.
CRVetsForTruth: anyways i welcome conversations such as this
CRVetsForTruth: there is no gatekeeper
CRVetsForTruth: just rules of transparency
CRVetsForTruth: but if you choose not to participate that is your choice
tonygarcialive: how transparent
CRVetsForTruth: what you propose is becoming a platform for hate and destructive action
CRVetsForTruth: i think that is far worse than ensuring a clean debate
tonygarcialive: how transparent?
tonygarcialive: as transparent as bryan shuy?
CRVetsForTruth: we are 100% transparent
CRVetsForTruth: you know who I am, you know what I've said, and you have every single campaign announcement or release available on our site since we came into being... you decide
tonygarcialive: and the difference between that level of transparency and the "chickens" of anonymity?
tonygarcialive: i'm trying to understand how much information is considered "transparent" vs bryan who has provided only a name
CRVetsForTruth: bryan is in Florida- he doesn't contribute as much... how is that not transparent???
tonygarcialive: that is not available on the blog
CRVetsForTruth: ?
CRVetsForTruth: what is not?
tonygarcialive: florida
CRVetsForTruth: his location on spring break?
tonygarcialive: so all we need to do is provide a name?
CRVetsForTruth: ok...
CRVetsForTruth: do you mind if I ask who you are
tonygarcialive: tony garcia
tonygarcialive: that should be sufficient, right
CRVetsForTruth: well, and where you come from... etc
tonygarcialive: ok, tony garcia from minnesota.
CRVetsForTruth: it's pretty fundamental
CRVetsForTruth: thank you
tonygarcialive: which is more info than bryan has provided. which makes me wonder about the attacks against anonymity. being from MN i know what hoplin and his colleagues do to vocal opposition
tonygarcialive: so, i think that a alevel of anonymity is necessary and prudent
CRVetsForTruth: what we think about that idea is pretty clear- on our blog
tonygarcialive: though your co-contribs do not provide info about themselves
CRVetsForTruth: i've got a meeting for the kilgore campaign kickoff in a few so I have to jett
CRVetsForTruth: they do
CRVetsForTruth: they all introduced themselves
CRVetsForTruth: read back
tonygarcialive: will do
tonygarcialive: alwaysrightusuallycorrect.blogspot.com
CRVetsForTruth: and as always- we respond to every email
CRVetsForTruth: so if there is something you want to know
CRVetsForTruth: like where we are on spring break
CRVetsForTruth: ask
CRVetsForTruth: we wont hide
CRVetsForTruth: but i have to run
tonygarcialive: alwaysrightusuallycorrect.blogspot.com
CRVetsForTruth: please keep feedback coming, positve or negative
tonygarcialive: that is where my feedback is
CRVetsForTruth: and i urge you to write if you have strong feelings
CRVetsForTruth: alright
tonygarcialive: cheers
tonygarcialive: and you're in virginia?
CRVetsForTruth: yes of course
CRVetsForTruth: You are having quite a civil debate on your blog
tonygarcialive: let people speak their mind and the chips fall where they may.
tonygarcialive: sometimes truth (and analysis of) is ugly.
CRVetsForTruth: I agree
CRVetsForTruth: and often dishonest is ugly as well
CRVetsForTruth: But if you ever have any questions about me feel free to ask
tonygarcialive: yep. in the marketplace of ideas a person can see it all and decide for themselves
CRVetsForTruth: and if want to know my position on anything feel free to ask
tonygarcialive: ok. thanks

March 22, 2005  

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